Thursday, August 28, 2008 | |
 
 

AddThis Social Bookmark Button

 
Logo by
 

Welcome to our readers' forums, which we fondly call The Arena. You must be REGISTERED to post here.

 
  The Arena  News and Politi...  Presidential El...  North Carolina and Indiana
Previous Previous
 
Next Next
New Post 5/7/2008 6:46 AM
  rundeep
324 posts
3rd Level Poster


North Carolina and Indiana 

So, where are we this AM? Obama closer to clinching, HRC trying to move the finish line by insisting that you have to take Michigan and Florida's delegates into account, Obama giving a speech that sounded like a convention acceptance and Hillary giving a speech that, though feisty, also included a little nod to possible concession.

Does it mean anything? Are we really stuck waiting it out through the month? I can't stand it anymore I so want it over.

 
New Post 5/7/2008 8:13 AM
  Michael Kenney
387 posts
3rd Level Poster




Re: North Carolina and Indiana 

I think she gave a glimpse when she said "I'll work my heart out for the nominee."...and then later.. "And I'm sure Sen Obama feels the same way."

He picked up 200,000+ pop votes and netted more delegates.

I expect it to continue until June, but with much less inflammatory rhetoric. I think she knows

it's just not in the math. Then again, it hasn't been in the math for months, so what do I know?

There is another issue that might bring this thing to a merciful end.

$$$$

 
New Post 5/7/2008 9:31 AM
  twiffer
401 posts
2nd Level Poster




it never ends 

the players just change.

 
New Post 5/7/2008 10:14 AM
  rundeep
324 posts
3rd Level Poster


Re: North Carolina and Indiana 

Good point. She's had to go to the mattresses and come out with cash today. You gotta wonder who's going to keep giving, other than tempo.

 
New Post 5/7/2008 10:35 AM
  Michael Kenney
387 posts
3rd Level Poster




Re: North Carolina and Indiana 

I think tempo is brilliant, and has fooled me completely.

Hey own personal Operation Chaos.

She's been making those $20 checks out to McCain since Day 1.

What other explanation can there be? If Hillary really has friends like that, so doesn't need enemies.

 
New Post 5/7/2008 1:27 PM
  catnapping
16 posts
theoddneighbor.blogspot.com/
No Ranking


MI and FL 

Even including those states...he's got the the majority of popular votes, and he's still ahead with the real delegates. Clinton has lost the nomination. The only way she gets the ticket now is if the superdelegates give it to her. That would be a fatal mistake.

The democratic party is energized. If their choice is dismissed, the party will break, and McCain will pick the next 2 or 3 justices.

I read this morning that Clinton remains to stay in the race "until there's a nominee." As far as I'm concerned there is a nominee - Obama.

So I hafta wonder at her motives...why isn't she making noises that sound like...let's work together on this...let's win America back from the evil neocons...let's all vote for Obama, etc... We're running outta time, and she knows it.

 

 

 
New Post 5/7/2008 2:06 PM
  Michael Kenney
387 posts
3rd Level Poster




Re: MI and FL 

Want a non-Dem's opinion? Damned if I'm not one of them,... offering one of those

I think that Hillary absolutely believes she's the better candidate. She's an amazing politician. What I saw from her last night in Indiana was masterful (if only Bill and Chelsea weren't standing behind her looking like they were attending a wake.)

I think that Hillary thinks that she can run the country well (as much as any president can "run" the country), while continuing the legacy, while gaining more political power. Because let's face it, that's what that job is all about, both within the government operations, and more importantly, in deciding how the country spends its trillions.

But here's what I think Hillary thinks,..and if she does, then I agree with her.

First of all, I don't think she cares too much for all that talk about her being annointed in advance because she's married to Bill. She's proud of her accomplishments in life, and damn well she should be.

I believe in my heart, from watching them both for damn near 20 years now, that Hillary thinks she can be a better president than Bill was. I think she'd be a better president than Bill was. I saw Bill as more of a "where the hell does this guy come off wanting this job"  type than Hillary. She's got US Senate experience, which from a legislative standpoint is, in my opinion, more useful than a Governor's management experience. At least now I think it is. Big messes to clean up, and it'll be helpful to be able to get something done in Congress.

Also, simply put, I think that she thinks that Bill wouldn't have amounted to shit without her, not the other way around and she wants the chance to prove it.

And again, I agree.

(qualifier...I'm not a Bill Clinton fan.)

 
New Post 5/7/2008 2:37 PM
  John McG
283 posts
4th Level Poster




Re: MI and FL 

I guess part of what bugs me about the "jumped in line" argument, that Clinton somehow was due this nomination is that yes, perhaps Clinton was more qualified on paper than Obama.  But what about Edwards? Richardson? Biden? Dodd?   And then there's McCain.

This has been the problem with Clinton's campaign ever since Obama emerged as her main competitor, and McCain emerged as the GOP nominee.  Almost every argument available to her to make against Obama could be just as effectively be made against her by McCain.  She's stuck in the middle.  If experience and a long record accomplishments is what you want, maybe Clinton's better than Obama, but isn't McCain's better than Clinton's? 

---

It seems to me the press is ready to be done with this race, establishing the headlines, "Obama Rolls in NC; Clinton Wins a Squeaker in IN".  

 
New Post 5/7/2008 2:42 PM
  Dawn Coyote
74 posts
No Ranking




Re: MI and FL 

Interesting. In Bill's second term, I read one of his close advisors (I forget who) saying Hillary might be a better president than Bill. I don't think he was the only one, either. It's one of the reasons I wanted to see her get in, because Bill seemed pretty good, though I can understand why his daughter might find him beneath contempt.

 
New Post 5/7/2008 3:19 PM
  catnapping
16 posts
theoddneighbor.blogspot.com/
No Ranking


i'm a bed-wetting commie lib.  

i would have voted for kucinich, so my choice is obviously gonna be someone as far removed from the republican values as possible.

and i agree with you - i think she honestly believes she would make the better president. i just don't happen to agree with her. but.  if clinton had won the nomination, i would definitely have voted for her. no question.

i wasn't a bill clinton fan, either, and i voted for him both times. when he fired elders, i sent him a telegram. i called him a 'closet republican.' (i'm the first person i've ever known to use that phrase, btw.')

from that moment on, i didn't trust a damn thing he said. i also opposed nafta and gatt...but i still voted for him in 96. better him than Dole.

 
New Post 5/7/2008 4:41 PM
  bite of the week
26 posts
No Ranking


It is not that it is her turn 

It is that he hasn't paid his dues.  And by that I mean that he hasn't done anything to show that he has ability to govern. 

 
New Post 5/7/2008 5:14 PM
  Michael Kenney
387 posts
3rd Level Poster




Re: MI and FL 
Modified By Michael Kenney  on 5/7/2008 6:16:46 PM)

That's an interesting point John, and one to which I haven't given a hell of alot of thought.

As I said, because of the Iraq War, Obama's been my guy from Day 1. And I always considered Senator Clinton to be the presumptive nominee. When the others began dropping out, it still wasn't much of a focus. Which of these people has the most legislative experience?

It wasn't only until after it became a 2 horse race did the question come to the forefront.

But this is a change election year, right?

People want something new.

Obama's new. If he wins the presidency, we'll all find out together. After GW Bush, I seriously can't imagine ANYONE, including me, doing a worse job.

But that opens a different discussion (one that I had with friends over a couple of barrels of Patron last week).....

Never mind the initial miscalculation by the Clinton camp, ie not recognizing a change election year and then trying to switch to that theme. Is it possible in a change election year that Senator Hillary Clinton was not only not helped all that much by Bill's very short coat-tails, but perhaps hindered by the connection?

 

 
New Post 5/7/2008 6:22 PM
  Michael Kenney
387 posts
3rd Level Poster




Re: MI and FL 

Dawn~

I think I already told you what I do for a living. I deal quite often with married couples making large financial decisions. After 30 years of doing this, I have acquired a certain skill at spotting the "brains of the operation."

By TV appearances alone I've decided, that ain't Bill.

I hope Obama picks her for VP. Maybe they're talking right now.

I can't have any more Iraq War.

The War is killing my country, and unlike the Nam years, I'm not sure my country even knows.

Obama/Clinton in '08

 
New Post 5/8/2008 8:02 AM
  rundeep
324 posts
3rd Level Poster


Re: MI and FL 

The Clintons have an interesting and complex relationship.  I'm one of those who thinks it's more than a business partnership. It's a real marriage, though he's seriously flawed as a partner. The way she maintained her dignity throughout the Lewinsky thing impressed me endlessly. That is one strong woman. I hate to reduce two complex and smart people to my uninformed speculation of their psychosexual dynamics. That doesn't mean I won't try though -- I get the impression he's purposely undermining her. He knows she's stood by him, and he's got an obligation to stand by her. Until this campaign began, he, like most ex-presidents, was growing in stature.  He and GHWBush were practically a formal act, and he was clearly doing well at the bank. His problems have gone into soft focus. The biggest campaign gaffes have been his. Based on what I've read about him and seen of him, I find it hard to believe he suddenly lost his savvy. Is he jealous? Just can't let her have it and eclipse him? Is it even intentional? I honestly don't know.  

 
New Post 5/8/2008 8:55 AM
  Keifus
388 posts
3rd Level Poster




I don't know 

It's probably wrong for me to project, especially onto powerful and motivated people, but I can tell you that if I suddenly find myself removed from headline status to a position of no particular responsibility whatsoever, I would become completely and utterly unserious.  I just see Bill letting go a little.

This is actually sort of a dream of mine.  I definitely shouldn't project.

 
New Post 5/8/2008 9:05 AM
  rundeep
324 posts
3rd Level Poster


Re: MI and FL 

I said this on the Fray a while ago. If you fall into the experience trap, McCain gets the edge.

I wonder if she would accept a VP slot? She ought to. After this campaign, it would take a little effort to offer it to her though. There would have to be a creeping fear that you were always and forever being second-guessed and that critical information would be leaked to the media.

 
New Post 5/8/2008 9:33 AM
  Michael Kenney
387 posts
3rd Level Poster




Re: MI and FL 

It'll be a tough sell, no doubt Maria. Tough to convince Obama that he should offer the VP job. Tough to convince Clinton that she should take it. But I can't see any other way to unite the party at this point.

Somebody's supporters are going to be bitterly disappointed, and it sure appears as if it will be Hillary's. With the exception of a few loons, I imagine an Obama/Clinton ticket will get out the number of votes it will take to trounce McCain. I may be wrong on that, and time will tell. Perhaps both Obama and Clinton are each capable of whipping McCain in the GE alone, but I think an Obama/Clinton ticket guarantees a Dem White House.

(My sister Jill said, immediately after Bill started shooting Hillary in the foot over the racial make up of South Carolina, that she thinks he's undermining her on purpose.)

 
Previous Previous
 
Next Next
  The Arena  News and Politi...  Presidential El...  North Carolina and Indiana
  Maximize
Home | And Now For The News | The Arena | The Comics Page | About Quiblit
Copyright 2008 by quiblit.com | Privacy Statement | Terms Of Use